So I went and saw the new James Blond Bond picture, and I must say that I’m fairly impressed. Fairly. It ran a little long for my tastes, but it was good. The action was good, and the new James Bond, Daniel Craig ,was pretty good. Throughout the whole picture, I really couldn’t get past that light hair, but as I looked, it kinda made sense. If I remember correctly, dark hair is less distinguishable than light hair, so it makes sense that he would’ve changed as he got more into the business of being James Bond. That did seem to be the theme of the picture, after all. Yeah, he was James Bond, but he was a rookie at it. He got better.
As far as the picture itself, the most impressive character to me was the first mini-villain he chased. That dude was like a real-life Spider-Man. Dude was runnin and jumpin and flippin through windows, and all that stuff. I was sorely impressed. I remember thinkin that if it took all that for me, I would’ve just given up the secret. Some of that stuff was pure madness.
One thing that was interesting for me was watching the movie the way I tell my students to watch, maintaining sight of all the elements of plot that I teach. I was in the movie theater, drawing the same story map that I put on the board for them to copy.
****
Jared has an interesting post on the Christian themes present in the character of Rocky, particularly as typified in the new film, Rocky Balboa. Â
All that’s well and good, but I’m tryin’a tell you: I’m a Rocky FAN. I’m not gettin the boxed set, I been had the boxed set. And if that dude does not die in the ring, I will be this close to disavowing myself of the entire series. I’m not sure what it is that’s irking me about it, but something about this last entry is just rubbing me the dead wrong way. Unless he dies in the ring.  It’s not necessarily about him losing the fight. Of course he should lose the fight, and it really shouldn’t even be close. But this is Rocky, so it’s gonna be close. But if this dude lives, the possibility for another movie will remain. And it shouldn’t. Okay, let’s break it down scientific-like.
Rocky was about 30 years old when he got the call from Apollo, give or take a year. Which basically means that his career as a name-brand heavyweight started when most fighters’ physical tools are diminishing. Then he has two wars with Apollo. Okay. Then there are the ten title defenses against less-than-stellar opposition. “Good, but not hungry,” as Mickey described them. Then there’s that brutal loss to Clubber Lang, and the Apollo-like regaining of the title. Rocky’s next fight is against Ivan Drago, and we all know how that turned out.Â
So now the premise of this next film, per the preview, is that some computer program has, in a set-up of all-time great fighters, pit Rocky against the reigning champion. My first problem is this: how is Rocky an all-time great? In all honesty, he should never have even won the belt, because if Apollo had used an ounce of sense, he would have stayed away in the 15th round, and that would be that. But taking things as they “actually” happened, the mark of a champion is his opposition. His inquisitors, Clubber Lang excluded, were tantamount to a Bum of the Month club. The win over Lang was quality, and I suppose the win over Drago should count, but then that makes 2 title wins and 11 defenses. That’s not an all-time record. Sorry.
But then that’s my beef with the premise of the picture. I can suspend my disbelief for a lotta things, but the idea that a 60-year-old heavyweight would be able to contend with the heavyweight champion is beyond laughable. Especially one WITH BRAIN DAMAGE!!! If Rocky was some dude who had kept himself in shape all these years, and had never had any health problems, livin nice and easy, stayin in the gym, then I still wouldn’t buy it, but it would make a little more sense that he could actually get a license to fight.  Hardscrabble hand-to-mouth? Are you serious? And I know much of the plot is probably supposed to address these concerns, but I ain’t buyin it. The only thing I’m evaluating this movie on is whether he dies in the ring.Â
May be kinda morbid, but that’s how it is.
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Hmmm. Now, see…I don’t know if I want him dead, but I sure don’t know that Stallone can possibly construct any kind of scenario where Rocky wins. I do know that his opponent is kinda supposed to represent the current crop of heavyweights - meaning that he’s a bit of a hollow champ.
As to the other question, about ROcky being an “all-time great”? I’m with you. I could see him described as the champ with the greatest heart, but an all-time great? Nah.
When you ask about the whole classic “Marciano vs. Ali”-question, you get me thinking. The other day, I was watching this bit on ESPN Classic about the 100 greatest knockouts of all time, and I came away with a few perceptions changed. For one thing, Marciano was a better boxer than I’ve ever given him credit for. Sure, he had a chin, and could punch crazy hard, but the fellow could slip when he needed to. Also, I think I’ve long underestimated the quality of a few heavyweights like Joe Walcott, and Ken Norton. Better than I thought they were.
As to whether or not Marciano would have stood a chance against Ali? See, I’m gonna get in trouble for saying this, but I think that it would be a close fight. Their styles offset each other a bit. Ali was clearly the better pure fighter, but Marciano’s conditioning and punching power might even the odds a bit. Ali tended to look past opponents, while Marciano didn’t. In a straight-up fight, I can’t possibly see Marciano winning a decision, but I could see him getting the KO.
You want to know who I think would have killed Marciano? The 72-73 model George Foreman. The way Foreman threw his punches - low, and from the side - would have been exactly what Marciano - as a crouching fighter - couldn’t handle. He would have walked right into Foreman’s wheelhouse. No way he could have gone the distance against that kind of punishment.
finally saw bond last weekend. it *was* real good (if a bit longer than really necessary)… rocky, well, i think i tuned out of that series sometime after clubber. i agree tho, dude’s got to pass on, now. enough’s enough.
I KNOW Marciano would beat Ali, Alis talk made his name bigger than the fighter himself if anyone did research theyed know the truth. If you ask a younger person who the greatest boxer in the world is…obviously Ali. You ask them what about foreman frazier ect. the answer….WHO? You are right marciano could not beat foreman, only because of the MASSIVE SIZE DIFFERENCE If the Rock gained afew pounds and maybe some speed, he’d leave foreman in a puddle of blood.
Marcianos stile was unlike any in the golden era. If you watch the old fights he constantly moved forwand even in the ropes and NEVER stood still to punch leaving easy targets fore people/killers like Ali, foreman, frazier, johnson,and Spinks. Tyson might beat him. BLOODFEAST!!!! Same thing as before though a little bit of mass and that prolem would be solved.Tyson’s increadible speed and agility would be worn by the later rounds with the kind of preasure and room to punch the steel man left. In a 15 round fight the much more experiennced late round fighter might have left his mark…If they both took the beating that long. I have spent hours on this subject and read more opinions than you can imagine, half of witch make absolutely no sence and though the birth of a new breed of athletes was responsible of the following this under rated gentleman would have more or less destroyed half or more of them. Even when Marciano was losing the other was panting twice as much and you could tell that he was handling it and the match would be over sooner or later.My grandfather was also a 14-0-1 amature who knows as much as his age shows about the sport and we have spent continuous time on the subject. Though I am younger than most who love the sport I beleive my edjucated opinion over rules any other’s.
Stirl…hand speed. which of the plodding fighter’s in the “golden era” you describe had nearly the hand speed of Ali? When would Marciano have dodged Ali’s jab? Really. And if you think Ali was going to get knocked out, you greatly underestimate his chin, which, I would argue, held up to his later detriment. No doubt that Marciano was a great fighter, but I think he did well to be the best of the era he was in. There is no slight in saying that he ranks below Ali and Louis. (BTW, you yourself admit that Marciano had problems w/ fighters with size. Ali is 6′3″. Do the math.)
Personally, I see Marciano being a top-ranked contender in the 70’s, maybe ranked 1 or 2 in the world, and even holding a belt while Ali was out (assuming Ali’s history remained the same). But that’s about it. Foreman was coming. The only figher who could’ve beaten the undefeated Foreman WAS ali. Period.
On the other hand, we never saw Ali at his peak as a fighter. We saw him just before it, when he totally destroyed Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell, when he still had all his speed but was just reaching his full size and strength, but the next three years, he was out of fighting. It’s useless to hypothesize on what he could’ve done during those years, just like it’s useless to hypothesize on what Marciano would’ve done if he had been bigger. He was what he was. He was the best of his era. Nothing wrong with that.
I agree that Ali had hand speed, no doubt about that, and one of the best chins in boxing history, but I think the pressure and room to punch that marciano left would have gotten to him like it did with frazier and ali tended to punch while the other was recuperating or stopped punching and marciano did neither. As for the height I think that would have actually been an advantage in this bout foreman used force with his size but ali didnt use size to his advantage his tactics were to fight like a giant middleweight.
I think that because ali punched at a distance and marcianogot within inches of his opponent that the fight would be either one of the best fights ever seen or one of the most ackuard. the thing is that nomatter how good your research is there is no way to really tell, either with a favor of one of thefighters or thefact that real life doesnt make sence. its like ro-sham-bo frazier beatsali ali beat forman forman beat frazier, no one knows were marciano would fit in there. I just think that because the rock got right up in the other and punched the most efficiant of every kind of punch, that it might have slown down such quickness/ on the other hand it might have gone the complete other way but in my oppinion that probably wouldnt happen.
The other thing is that when you say he could not knock him out THAT is what I disagree with the MOST.Though ali did have the ability to take a KILLER punch that foreman had, He didnt punch like foreman. foreman was out to kill and imbarress ali miserably and just sat back and LET THEM FLY!!! but marciano would work into that once he got past alis monsterous jab. he thought the fight out. whatd think about tyson?
tyson v. ali or tyson v. marciano? vs. ali, tyson would have no shot. ali would win the mental game long before the actual fight. he beat liston in the weigh-in. he’d do the same or worse to tyson.
marciano v. tyson would be interesting. i think marciano would have out-worked tyson. but with mike, there’s always the element of that one-hitter quitter power.
still with ali v. marciano, i think the element of foot speed also comes into play. in his first career, there was just no hitting him cleanly. marciano v. after-exile ali would probably be a good fight. pre-exile ali? not so much. too much jab, too much hand and foot speed. rock would try to bore inside, but he couldn’t hit what he couldn’t catch.
even though ali was faster as pre exiled I think he was was much more vonerable to being KOed because we all know the great beating he took from foreman but his chin was never tested earlier in his career and the element of a new level of pressure when he was just taking off would(I think) suprise him and wear him down. The foot speed I dont think would matter if you notice when ali fought bigger fighter such as foreman and frazier he didnt use footspeed at least til the thrilla in manilla but he tried to rope a dope them and I think the rope a dope would have the same effect as it did on frazier… absolutely none. And dont state an oppinion such as a pre-exile ali fight wouldnt be such a good one unless you can support it.
I also think that if marciano got ali into the ropes then it would deffinitly be a knockout because marciano was to smart to overlook ali and to smart to fall into a rope a dope. I think in the ropes hed work ali like he did to joe louis exept he wouldnt KO him in the ropes, Im not that irregant to understand that, Louis was not nearly as talented as ali at that point in his career but if he did get him in the ropes that would tire him more than I think any one else did. Marciano was not like tyson frazier ali foreman ect. if you probabably notice when he punch he did not punch aimlessly at a fighter that was covered up. This is why I choose rocky over ali because his punches come at every angle with the same amount of power at open unguarded places.
when I say bigger I mean stronger and more agressive.
When you say too much jab listen to what ali said about maciano after the hosting of the superbout. He said it was imcredible how hard it was to land his jabbs with marcianos squatting teqnique. I think if he aproached ali low and guarded alis jabbs would hardlt effect him nomatter how fast they came.
Dood. We know styles make fights, and you make some interesting arguments in Rock’s favour, but you keep pressing the issue like it’s clear as day (if only the blind would see).
Is it so difficult to say that while Marciano was great, Ali was greater? As Avery has patiently said, there’s no shame in that.
Ali was a freak of nature. Height, reach, speed to burn in his hands, feet, neck, you name it, and he was capable of withstanding even the nightmarish punishment of a Foreman.
Rock could crouch all he wants all while marching with clenched jaw toward his opponent but at some point he has to get into range of Ali’s lightning quick, stinging jab. And at some point he’d have to realize this Ali guy is verry difficult to hit. It’d make for a loong night at the office, no doubt.
We can sit here and conjecture all day long (*yawn*), but by sunset you’ll have to admit, with each at or near prime, the case for Ali winning over Marciano is at least as compelling as the supposition for the opposite. Let them rest.
see this is why i dont bother to argue about it, people dont know anything.I continued to argue with avery cause I could tell he had somthing to say yhat was actually true. but i refuse to talk to people like you who probably didnt even know that boxing existed before the 70s until now. i dont know that for sure but i can tell when someone doesnt know what theyre talking about. here i am telling you every single detail of boxing thats on my mind that i know, and all you can say is “he was greater”. im sorry to say it but you shold not write anymore if you want to seem smart in this conversation. Speed is NOT what matters in a fight. It is a meer detail. In alis case a GIANT detail, but in the end if two legends fought it would come down to strength and the power to very plainly get your head and body phisicly abused until you cannot take it anymore. I am not saying ali was NOT good at that, Im not saying marciano WAS good at that. But if your true to the sport youd know that a clear shot to the head that normal boxers did not usually get placed ali flat on his back like he was in the first frazier fight and no efence to frazier but rocky punched much harder. His agression is far too underestimated to put into words and i just dont think ali could handle it. if you compare this fight to the RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE then you are smart but you heard what I said before and if you dont listen to that then you are not qualified to enter this arguenent. Also if you are one of those BSers who sat marciano fought fighters older than him than i would bet my life that you did not know that foreman was ten tears older than ali when they fought, so if you say walcott was nothing and put him down think about that for a while… I hope that you are not too irregant and stuck up to learn from this arguement.
And i dont care if you think ali would win, tou are not a 1 in 1000000 but if you think hes the best then you have no idea
Ok, you win, Stirl. Ali was pretty much all myth and he is ten years older than Foreman. Right. Got it. I bow to my superior.
Ave, I used to be your best troll, but now I have been bested, KO’d, down for the count. Long live the king.
HA HA Your retarded!!!Sorry that that is what you think i said but if a bias person is arguing with someone who is edjucated then the conversation is pretty much nothing.Im not saying that ali was nothing but myth but he is a meer 3rd place in the heavy weight history to me with joe louis as a NUMBER ONE and marciano close behind. If someone smart who has not watched all the fights with a blindfold of alis ego on who still thinks ali could win please write and please, PLEASE dont give me any bull about any one fighter look at every fighter with an open mind.
I appologize i was wrong foreman was not older than ali. I read that on what someone wrote on amazon. And that still proves a point I suppose. since ali was older than foreman and won than it is possible that any of the fighters rocky fought could have beaten him like ali did to foreman; but as you know they did not. And here are some of the things i do know if you think marciano was far from louis in his prime you are wrong because he said he never could have won that fight nomatter if he was in his prime or not. Though that may have been modesty coming from such a solid fighter that is saying something
What do people think about a tyson vs. marciano or ali or louis fight?
Even though I really dispise tyson and think hes the worlds biggest piece of crap for the ear thing and for throwing away his career. He was a desent fighter even if he couldnt last long against someone who fought back…it takes SOME talent to knock someone out with one punch.
If anyone disagrees with me let me know I am interested in what people have to say. And if anyone want to know why marciano is not known as the best heavyweight in the the world because of his record then I will tell you why. Almost every boxer has lost a fight to someone they just could not beat in at least one fight exept marciano. He never fought anyone that that could handle his power in more than one fight who actually met what he actually was potential of. Not one fighter in his era was capable to give this man what he was asking for by entering the ring. Ali had people who were supposed to beat him and some of them did but in the end he came out on top of his rival. Marciano never had trouble in his fights, and it was not because they were older but he was just simply better and because he did not lose to anyone people suppose there had to be a reason that a slow fighter could not lose once to ANYONE he fought they try to make up BS about older fighters and crap like that. But why is it that Even thouh louiss come back was undefeated til then and that Walcott was the champion of the world when they fought they all had absolutely no talent. Ill tell you why, because noone knows how powerful he actually was, no one knows how far he could have gone against someone who met his talent. So they compare desent fighters to the greats like ali and you get the same outcome as you would if marciano fought alis second hand fights. but ali was not undefeated.
One last thing that I have to say is Yes he was what he was if they were taken straight out of their eras and maybe ali could have beaten him then but when you say it is useless to predict what rocky could have done if he was bigger I think if they were in the same era with the same techniques marciano would more likely than not in my opinion win. Because if they were in the same era marciano would work hard to get bigger and stronger. Again Im gonna say none knows what would happen at all what would happen if these stiles mat but all we can do is get an idea from other fights fought from both fighters. I will just say with all the research Iv done i think my opinion is more valid than others.
hello….
i think a holyfeild frazier fight would be GREAT!!!!!!!!!!
That be good, holyfeild might have won technical bt UD, he was great, but frazier I think had a little more power. Stirl seems to know way more than any of you. Before I thought maciano was like #12 but now I think hes #2 or even 1.This is is my list 1 marciano/ali/louis
2 holyfeild
3 george foreman
4 frazier
5 tyson
6 lennox lewis
lol Stirl knows what hes takin about!
I think the greatest fight that could ever take place is if foreman refought ali. I have adistinct feeling that history would be drasticly changed. Ali would try to rope-a-dope foreman a second time and foreman would just stand in the middle of the ring thinking ali was mentaly disabled for thinking that hed fall for it again. Now I could see two outcomes ali comes out of the corner and gets his sorry ass WAILED!!!! or the second outcome that most ali worshipers will agree with. Ali approaches kind of slowly and jabbs foreman constantly until it agrivates him and draws him into a rope a dope. After foreman realizes how stupid his actions have become he does the same thing as in the beginning and ali uses the same kind of fishing tactic til foreman loses to a second ko or either could win the decision/ alis favor.
The vertion of the fight ali win would be one awkward fight and pretty mediocre but neither will ever take place so it’s pointless to talk about.
Even though marciano is one of the bests dont take away what ali has. I happen to think marciano was better also but ali was also a great. What do you think of a prime holyfeild V George foreman? I actually think foreman might lose that one. I think the old foreman did the besthed ever do in the fight that they actually had. Foerman became a master of blocking punches at his old days. Even though foreman had a ton of power he mght take too many square punches.
Theyd all be great but as i said they will never happen so its useless to talk about. About the bonds movies i actually think it was the best yet. the new guy is pretty good…for a blonde. it did last long but don they all? heard a new rambos coming out and i have to say even though i guess im pretty exited stallone just has to phase the fact that a hit in the 70s cant come back as a hit in 30 years.
The only thing that pisses me to another world is when people refer to muhammed ali as the best boxer and there are so many people that are just as good. But he was really REALLY good.
I personally think holyfield is the best. Speed cant beat him neither can power. Hell outbox you or out brawl you. He was a cruiserweight that became one of the best EVER no arguement. Why doesnt he get credit? Ill tell you 4 y. Because he was and is a good guy and people just want to see maniacs like tyson get big off of cycotics and power.Have some respect for holy.
i think a holyfield, louis fight would be the best. no doubt that it would override any fight ever. Louis on all his fights with a finishing punch, but holyfield could never be finished what does anyone think?
Know what I notice. If anyone really cair cuz I wrote so much. OK Ali was good and all but he had trouble with the bob and weave. Tyson was the master at a bob and weave. Maybe a tyson ali fight wouldnt be as lopsided as I thought it may be. I mean tyson lost any skill that he may have possessed after like his 20th fight and all he could depend on after that was power but maybe in his condender years within the 1st 17 fights. I say if he fought like that it would have been a great fight. ali decision in 12 but maybe a late decision or even ko in 15 because ali wouldn’t be moving as fast. Hey all you ali fans, I watched the Rumble in the Jungle time and time again. Ali had the ropes loosened and its pretty apparant. Didnt have as much of a chin as you thought. he also went to Africa monthes before the fight. Now do you still wonder why there was no triligy between thoses two. Alis brain would have leaked out his scull in a clean fight. As Joe Frazier would quote, “He thought he was God and I said lord you in the wrong place tonight.” Ken Norton broke his jaw and you think he actually could have taken the wrath of the X street fighter BIG GEORGE FOREMAN!!! I highly doubt it! I count his fight with foreman as a loss because it was a mountain of big brown DOG SHIT. But I hand it to ali, his last three career losses were old age. His record should be 55 wins and 3 loses but as things turn out its not and ali still cant talk because of the damage foreman did to his brain even with lose ropes. Someone please argue cuz I really want to know peoples oppinions when they try to overlook things like that.
Know what i noticed*cairs*
Stallone was really on his A game for the new Rambo. Loved it. Bloodiest movie ever but i loved it all the same